General talk:Obscure Locations

Needs Sourcing

There are items in this list that literally don't exist. "Ivytyde" for example. Zero hits on UESP (besides this page) and zero hits on google beyond a musical artist of the same name. Imperial Library shows nothing either. If sources can't be presented, even a basic "Events of X", then IMO they should not be listed here. CoolBlast3 (talk) 11:28, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Well duh, the refs aren't done yet. A lot of it comes from dead forum posts by Ted Peterson or MK. I made a document awhile ago that includes some of their origins https://docs.google.com/document/d/1En-7yPDPFWQyETCni2GqhWsWKN9ZCYPSqbTMidOZPvs TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead (talk) 11:31, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Going "well duh" is kinda rude to say the least. If the page is this incomplete without a single source it should've been made in sandbox and at minimum included sourcing as "Forum posts" CoolBlast3 (talk) 11:37, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Sorry? It wasn't my intent for it to be rude. It was a kindly duh. But it's easy to misread tone in text.

I didn't think it was that serious, since I put it in general, not lore. Half the wiki has sourcing problems in Lore as it is. I'll be adding refs over the next few weeks, I know them all. Ivytyde for example comes from this https://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/RP_Hearthfire_Heartfires_Part_03.htm, by either S'reddit or Sheogorath, aliases of Ted P TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead (talk) 11:46, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree with Coolblast that the general pages for the lore from documents such as Loranna RP and other similar documents should be made into UESP general pages as uol lore or something similar before topics that require sourcing from them are added Tyrvarion (talk) 11:42, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

What? It'd take actual years to document everything from Loranna's RP properly. This is just a useful resource for people to peruse. Again, it's general, Uutak Mythos is in general. I don't get why this is an issue.TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead (talk) 11:50, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be complete to be a source. Also, Uutak Mythos is specified to be fan project on its main page. This article mixes uol that have sources, canon and uol that does not have sources in one article. It is not a bad idea, but Coolblasts reservations are not unfounded. And without citations on where from things are added the validity of the resource can be questioned since its rather unclear what is from where.Tyrvarion (talk) 11:56, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

(←) I've proposed this article for deletion. If you wish to make it available as a resource, I would recommend userfying it instead. That way you wouldn't have to deal with such stringent sourcing requirements. —⁠Legoless (talk) 23:23, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I mean, I obviously disagree. I would have found this article very useful as a user. The reason I put it in General and not userspace is because nobody looks at userspace. Sourcing is happening. It takes time. If it stayed in sandbox nobody would look at it, and the work would get done slower.TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead (talk) 23:36, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I oppose any type of page deletion. Useful and insightful. Dcking20 (talk) 01:03, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't think the page needs deletion either. Outright fanfiction like whatever the bat mer race is, is also on General. My main issue is that whilst said fanfic is marked as one, this page sets itself up as a suplemental and somewhat useful article for official and UOL, but without any sources it's hard to use as such. Now that sources are added more or less, my main issues with it are gone. I also oppose deletion. CoolBlast3 (talk) 08:23, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

(←) I'm fully on board with userification or outright deletion. A massive list of a subjective nature isn't really useful, and could be detrimental when mixing UOL and OL with zero distinction. [[ User:Jeancey|Jeancey]] (talk) 18:02, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

….the like immediately obvious/explicit thing this page does beyond listing obscure locations is bracket them between official lore, unofficial lore, and cut content. Where are you getting "mixing UOL and OL with zero distinction"? Furthermore, it’s worth noting that general space is not lore space and the addition of sources will be helpful, but not mandatory to the pages existence. Dcking20 (talk) 01:12, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I have no problem changing the description text at the top to something better fitting, just saying it's a fan list or something. I also meant useful in terms of mod makers and map nerds, maybe not all that useful for casual wiki persons. Theres also lists up in general all about documenting lots of things that could be considered arbitrary (even though I don't consider it so) https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Main_Page#General_Information, so idk, I haven't been persuaded this sorta thing has zero utility for folks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

For a long while now I've been planning to have a list on Lore:Places of locations first mentioned in lore, like books on Lore:Library, I just never got the time to implement it. If they later on appeared in games (like Wind Scour Temple), I'd mark them in italics. Zenimax likes to bring back a lot of established lore that was mentioned years ago, but unfortunately there's no handy list where you can find all those locations easily, so they tend to be forgotten. With my suggestion we could make it a more "formal" list easier to categorize and solve all our problems. As for the unofficial stuff I think its still useful to have a list somewhere, so I'm with what Rock is saying. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 20:46, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

City Isle?

I'd like to start by saying that I appreciate the list, it's cool, but why is City Isle listed as an obscure location when it is documented in three separate games? It's far from a location that is mentioned only in lore. Is there something I'm missing? Keplers (talk)

I think the idea is that City Isle is never outright confirmed to be the Imperial City island, although UESP does make that connection. The only thing that suggests they are similar is Legoless' question in the sourced Q&A, which mentions the Dark Anchor chains present in ESO, but such chains also appear in other locations. I will probably change the source to be something more official, as information gathered from the questions in Q&As are typically UOL, whereas the answers are official canon. That being said, if you have a source that indeed states that City Isle and Imperial Island are one-and-the-same, feel free to remove it from the list, or provide it here and I shall. Mindtrait0r (talk) 17:09, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

My source for the term was Oblivion. "City Isle" is a region in that game, and appears on the UI when you enter one of the region's exterior cells. It's definitely the most recent official term for the island, which is why it's the title of the lorespace article. —⁠Legoless (talk) 16:41, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Good source, it has been removed. Mindtrait0r (talk) 16:59, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

N'Gasta's Tower

I'm inclined to agree with Rock here. I pose an example using made-up dialogue to support this:

Degreda at Pilgrim's Point: "Lord Janos is the leader of a village near here." Lop at Pilgrim's Point: "I'm from a village near here called Dragonwatch."

Would we include the first as Janos' Village near Pilgrim's Point separately from Dragonwatch? Seems like original research to conclude that they're different, in my opinion, as having two entries is definitively saying they are different. Having one of those (?: ...) notes does help but given how the first instance, just like N'Gasta's tower, doesn't even have a name, I don't think its worth mentioning with the relevant other location in mind. Mindtrait0r (talk) 21:22, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Maybe I'm thinking bad-wrongs, but like, c'mon. Specifically this character's dialogue mentions a "wizard's tower" twice, no other characters have this dialogue. Sorkvild's Tower is inhabited by Sorkvild, a necromancer, who possesses the Masque of Clavicus Vile. Kinda like that N'gasta necromancer character in Redguard, who also worshipped Clavicus Vile. Extremely reasonable inference via context clues. TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead (talk) 23:50, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I always assumed that the tower Artisa mentions is Sorkvild's Tower. I think it's fine to note the possible existence of a separate tower belonging to N'Gasta on Vvardenfell, but the possibility that it could be Sorkvild's Tower should be noted as well. —⁠Legoless (talk) 11:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Dunkreath

Hi! I just found out about this page while looking info about this "Dunkreath" place mentioned in a Word Wall. I'm curious, why is "Dunkreath" behind the "Morrowind" section? The Word Wall doesn't mention that province, it mentions Vegunthar, conqueror of Dunkreath and slayer of the "kings of the East" but those kings could be from the Eastmarch or the Old Holds from all we know. Does anybody has a reference or source on that? The only thing I could found was Tamriel Rebuilt's region of Uld Vraech having Dunkreath as one of its "largest settlements", but that's a mod, unless they too know something I don't. --45.182.127.185 01:15, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Great observation! I'll move it to unknown. Mindtrait0r (talk) 03:03, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks!

Yo hey, just wanted to drop a thanks to all who have participated on this page. It's one of the most useful for me personally, keeping rocking yall 🤘 TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead (talk) 18:03, 6 May 2024 (UTC)