Lore talk:Druids of Galen

Sources

The Druids of Galen (also known as the descendants of Galen[1] and the druids of old)[2] were the Nedic[3]

This source isn't referring to the Druids of Galen at all; it only refers to the origins of the Bretons. Is there a source that explains the link from Druids to Nedes, because otherwise this is original research.

The line "In ancient times our fore-bearers, those without Elven blood, roamed the hills and moors of High Rock" refers to Nedes and in this context, the Druids of Galen. Leamon Tuttle on UESP's discord confirmed that the book Wyrd and Druid suffered from imprecise writing when we were talking about the timeline. It used to say "In ancient times, the Manmer—the first Bretons—roamed the hills and moors of High Rock", but the book was revised as these ancestors were not Manmer until interbreeding, but it intentionally kept the same style of writing. On your other point, you cannot talk about the Druid of Galen without referring to the origin of the Bretons. They have been linked to their origins since the first Elder Scrolls game, and they are called their ancestors in several sources, such as in Arena and ESO.

As for the Druids of Galen's race being Nedic or Breton, that depends on the time period being Merethic or First Era. We know from various sources that Bretons already existed before the Druid of Galen's exodus in 1E 330, such as the sage Voernat and the meeting between Skyrim and High Rock in the Tamriel Tactrates. Additionally, the Wyrd and Druid book also refers to Manmer around the time city-Bretons, the Wyrd, and the Druids of Galen split. The Druids of Galen that left to the Systres would already be Manmer. I understand how this would be confusing. —Zebendal (talk) 07:04, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

They have been further confirmed as Nedes in Modern Day Bretons: Man or Mer?, and that they were already Bretons when they went to the Systres in Loremaster's Archive - Tamriel's Dungeons. —Zebendal (talk) 14:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Reachman connection

"It is also possible that the Druids of Galen were the Nedic ancestors of the Reachman as well, as sources have claimed that the Reachman and Bretons share the same ancestors, and Reachman themselves have made the claim that their people originated in High Rock.[5]Some sources even claim Reachman as simply a particulary mongrel group of Bretons. Furthermore, it is said that the True Way of the modern druids shares similarities to the theology of the Reach."

This...doesn't belong here IMO. It's entirely speculation. The source does nothing to link the Reachman to the Druids of Galen, as the source is just another saying "Bretons & Reachman share heritage". The other two comments are entirely sourceless as well. This is pure speculation, and extremely broad speculation at that- This should be removed. CoolBlast3 (talk) 11:46, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

"Druiddom"

Is this a word? I can't find any official source using it, but it seems to be used by us across lorespace and ONspace. —⁠Legoless (talk) 10:05, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

It is not a word but it is used in official sources: "I only hope my answers can cultivate your interest. Who knows, perhaps if the wind in the trees and the sun on your face call to you as they do to me, one day we may see you here in the heart of druiddom." (https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/63107)Tyrvarion (talk) 14:05, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

It is actually a misspelling of the word Druidom, from Systres History: Volume 2. I'll correct the spelling of it. I likely got my spelling from the website, but the in-game spelling should take priority. —Zebendal (talk) 14:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks for clarifying. —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:34, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Just as a note, Druidom isn't a word either, it's just used in another ESO book. Ideally in non-book settings we shouldn't use it at all and should rephrase to get the same general meaning. Jeancey (talk) 00:33, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

If we have an in-universe source that uses it, then it's a word. The -dom suffix makes sense when applied in this manner; compare Christendom. —⁠Legoless (talk) 22:13, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

(←) The issue is more the overuse of the word on the wiki compared to the relative lack of use of the word in universe. There are a significant number of sources that use other terms to refer to the same thing as druidom/druiddom without using that phrasing, so why not use the more common terms rather than focusing in on the single usage of druidom or the two uses of druiddom? Shouldn't we be using the most common terms, as opposed to the least common terms? We use Orcs, not Orsimer, and we just changed a massive amount of pages to utilize Dark Elf over Dunmer because Dark Elf was more common. Why are we now reverting to using the least common terms? Jeancey (talk) 22:16, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Legoless on this. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 22:19, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I also agree that we should use terms that are present in our sources. There is ZERO use of word "druidism" and "druidry" in the online space. For all intents and purposes, for the TES setting it is druiddom and druidom that are the more widespread terms. Tyrvarion (talk) 22:26, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Agree with using druidom/druiddom. On the discord wiki-discussion, I ended up agreeing with withdrawing druidom/druiddom. But I wasn't aware "druidism" didn't pop up a single time. If that's the case, then druidom/druiddom should be used whenever a long sentence (i.e: "Druid culture") doesn't work properly. It's an in-world word and rejecting it just because it doesn't exist in real-world English is a weird stance to take, especially when the implied meaning of the word is more or less obvious. CoolBlast3 (talk) 22:33, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I didn't change anything to Druidry or Druidism.... I changed them to Druids. And there are hundreds of sources using "druids" to refer to the community as a whole. Why use Druiddom and druidom which are 100% NOT widespread (druidom appears in a single book and nowhere else), rather than the much more widespread usage of "Druids" to refer to the community at large? Jeancey (talk) 22:34, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

And it was not bad idea to replace some of them. Thats great in fact. Though in many cases usage of druiddom/druidom (whichever is deemed more fitting) was not problematic. And in certain cases, they do work better than druids too. Like for example "heart of Druiddom" was a far more elegant term than "heart of druids" in the context it was presented. Druids and Druiddom/Druidom have slightly different applications in prose and sometimes using plural Druids as a one-to-one replacement is not ideal - though in many cases it is good. Tyrvarion (talk) 22:42, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I would like to point out, druidism is actually used an equal number of times in official sources as druidom is.... Also, please don't just assume I made a 1:1 replacement. Some of them fit with druids, some fit better with "the druids" some fit better with other phrasing, but I didn't just control-F replace with druids.... Every single instance of druidom felt forced to me in the prose, like when someone discovers a new word and waves it around like a shiny new toy. NOT using druidom actually flowed much better in every single one of the replacements. Jeancey (talk) 22:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Jeancey that druids is the most common term and should be used instead of druidom. The word druidom denotes "the druid world" as opposed to the practices of the druids. I think it should only be used in that context. —⁠Legoless (talk) 23:03, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

The term druidism does not appear in game. Only article in gamespace that uses it is ON:Elder Verline where it is part of the description written by us, not by ZOS. And it is also mentioned in question (but not answer) in archive. That said I am not opposed to replacement where it is fitting, though there are cases where indeed druidom needs not to be replaced (such as an article on Y'ffelon, though this article needs an expansion and/or minor revamp anyways). Druids and Druidom as Legoless said have different meanings and each should be used when it is relevant. I think that druiddom should not be entirelly removed from the lorespace by any means, though indeed in many cases word druid is sufficient replacement (but not always). Tyrvarion (talk) 23:14, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

(←) It doesn't have to appear in ESO for it to appear in an official document, it was used in an online article released by ZOS, the exact same as all instances of Druiddom, in fact. I'm not saying we should be using druidism, I'm saying that none of them seem to be widespread enough for us to use them primarily, as we were. Very few instances should we be using druidom as we are assuming something about druids as a whole in those instances that may not be true. They aren't all the same, and basically none of the instances where we were using druidom were doing do to denote the druid world in a political sense. Jeancey (talk) 23:18, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

My argument for this position was partially shared here by Jeancey. To restate it here, just because there are instances where a term is accurate, the overusage of that term makes its frequency seem more common than it really is. Orsimer was spoken all of one time before ESO, and we should use it sparingly, especially in materials relevant to later lore. Terms like "Druidom", while allowable to a degree, should be used sparingly when we can easily use other options with high frequency of official usage like "druid" or "druidic" instead. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 23:18, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I do think we can use druidom and druidism occasionally in contexts where it is the most fitting word to use in the sentence. I think we've all come to the agreement that druidom is the domain of druids, while druidism is the practice of druid beliefs and culture. There are some instances where "Druids" reads awkwardly and doesn't fit grammatically, and vice-versa with "Druidom" and "Druidism". As long as the words are used in the correct context and flow well, I see no reason not to use them where it fits. The Rim of the Sky (talk) 21:50, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Given it’s a word used in universe it can be used in lore articles for sure. (when relevant) Dcking20 (talk) 22:13, 28 April 2023 (UTC)